Harry Potter and the Police Cell
September 30, 2007
A special edition complete set of all seven Harry Potter books has been sold on eBay for a staggering £18,200.00. The special cloth bound editions all signed by the author J K Rowling come with a certificate of authenticity… and a receipt from the police!
At first it was intended the books be deposited at the bank, but astoundingly the local Clydesdale bank turned them away unable to guarantee safe keeping until the auction finished. The local police stepped in to provide a police cell for Harry Potter where the books have been under lock and key until the auction ended.
The books were sold through eBay for Charity to benefit Books Abroad, who supply second-hand books free of charge to schools, libraries and colleges in overseas countries.
Celebrity Paws support Cats Protection
September 30, 2007
Twenty eight cat loving celebrities were asked to draw around their hand and sign and decorate it to create a one-off auction item to support Cats Protection, the UK’s largest charity dedicated to cats. The celebrities include everyone from Gordon Brown to David Cameron, Prunella Scales to Richard Briers, William Roache (Ken Barlow) to Ricky Gervais and Gary Lineker to Gareth Southgate.
Each celebrity “Paw Print” has been signed and framed with a name plate, bearing the full name and title of the celebrity. They’ll be accompanied with a letter from Cats Protection verifying their authenticity.
If you love cats this is the perfect way to support Cats Protection, simply choose which cat loving celebrity’s paw you want to win and start placing bids!
Coming soon: more third party ads
September 29, 2007
Several months back eBay announced that adverts for third parties would appear on eBay search pages when there were no other results. They were very keen to emphasise this when there are no other results - but I know I wasn’t the only seller who cynically thought it was the thin end of the wedge.
This week, eBay.com’s Announcements Board talked again about on-site adverts for third parties. It’s the waffliest post I’ve seen on the AB for a very long time, but the bottom line appears to be we’re going to put adverts where we like, when we like. This will “improve the buyer experience”.
Let me say it now: I’m absolutely in favour of improving the buyer experience, but this phrase is starting to be eBay shorthand for “it’s our site and we’ll do what we like”. And of course, it *is* their site and they *can* do what they like, but dressing up revenue enhancements as benefits to their users presumes a level of naivity that is close to insulting.
I’ve spent a long time looking this week, and as far as I can see, there are third-party ads at the bottom of every single search results page on eBay.co.uk, .fr and .com. (At least, they are there on every one of the hundreds of pages that I have looked at across dozens of categories.) eBay can state all they like that the ads are not intended to compete with sellers’ listings, but the fact is that buyers get to the bottom of a search page and they have to do *something*. Either they can click the “next” link to look at more eBay results, or they can click the ads. It doesn’t take much analysis to see that this is going to divert some traffic from eBay.
We can take it for granted that sellers won’t like this. eBay can make statements that advertising has “no significant impact to our core transaction business”, but no seller is going to believe it. If it’s true, I challenge them to publish the results of the usability studies. Myself, I’d agree with Skip McGrath’s comments: these ads are just distracting buyers from doing what I want them to do: buy on eBay.
One glimmer of hope might be that the default ads at the bottom of search results’ pages - presumably when no one has directly bought the advertising - seem to be to show results from Shopping.com, so now might be the time to consider advertising with them. Of course, this would be more money for eBay - and throwing extra cash at advertising isn’t a solution that’s available to everyone.
So how about the buyer experience? Is that improved? I don’t think so. If I’m searching on eBay, it’s because I want to buy from eBay. I don’t think of eBay as some kind of search engine for shopping: if I want random websites selling whatever, I’ll use Google to find them, and if I want results from shopping.com, I’ll go there. eBay are in serious danger of undermining their own brand here, which is sad, because sometimes, they get it. Removing home page featured listings cost them ad revenue, but they had a better, more streamlined site because of it. Why undermine that with slapping external ads on every bit of spare space? It smacks of desperation.
Cheap doesn’t indicate stolen, says German court
September 29, 2007
A German court yesterday overturned the conviction of a man found guilty of purchasing stolen goods on eBay. The 47-year old software engineer had previously been fined €1,200 for his 2005 purchase of a car navigation system which was subsequently found to have been stolen. The device was advertised as “brand new”, but was sold for less than a third of its normal retail price. The lower court had ruled that this should have indicated to the buyer that all was not as it should be, but the state court has now overruled his conviction as he could not have known the item was stolen.
Misleading and Discouraging Payments Policy
September 28, 2007
eBay are introducing a Misleading and Discouraging Payments Policy which they’ll begin enforcing from mid October in Australia. This is an update of the PayPal Payments Policy which is effective on eBay.com, but which currently doesn’t exist on eBay.co.uk.
The new policy insists that you must accept all payment methods offered from all buyers with no restrictions. For instance you can no longer say you’ll only accept PayPal for purchases over £10.00, or that you’ll accept cheques but not from overseas customers. If you offer a payment method in your listing you have to accept it regardless of the location of the buyer.
This policy is not limited to details within the eBay listing, but includes communications between buyers and sellers.
Most of the examples (and the fact it’s an update of the PayPal Payments Policy) lead me to think this is simply aimed at sellers rejecting PayPal payments from certain buyers. However the implications are more serious. For International sellers you may be perfectly willing to accept cheques from UK buyers drawn on a UK bank account, but accepting cheques in US Dollars, Japanese Yen, Lebanese pounds or any other obscure currency from around the world is not only unrealistic, it’s also nigh on impossible to cash them!
If eBay are to introduce policies such as this in the UK they might as well go the whole way and insist on PayPal as the only acceptable form of payment. Accepting cheques as payment from various countries around the world is just not possible, but to comply with the new policy if you accept them for domestic transactions you have to accept them for International transactions.
Whilst the policy is only currently being introduced in Australia it’s likely to migrate to other eBay sites in the near future. To avoid upheaval when it happens it’s probably worth considering updating your listings to comply sooner rather than later as when it comes to the UK it’ll never be at a convenient time to edit all your listing templates.
I’d predict that it won’t be too far in the distant future that only PayPal is used on eBay. If it’s not because eBay insist upon it, it’ll be because any other form of payment has been made too awkward to accept.
Court orders eBay to divulge sellers earnings
September 27, 2007
A court order has been given for high volume Canadian eBay sellers sales information to be released to the tax authorities. This includes names, addresses, phone numbers and e-mail addresses of all sellers who qualified as PowerSellers in 2004 and 2005.
The Canada Revenue Agency (equivalent to HMRC in the UK) wants to cross reference the data with that filed on sellers tax returns and verify the income sellers have reported.
Whilst eBay have argued in court that they don’t have the information required as it is held on eBay servers located outside Canada the courts have ruled they are legally obliged to hand over the data.
It will be interesting to see if the US and UK tax authorities follow suit and demand eBay divulge sellers information. So far eBay have defended assisting the US IRS and in the UK only hand over individual sellers records when named records are specifically requested.
Sellers who declare legitimate earnings have nothing to fear, but those that are not paying any taxes due should contact the Inland Revenue before the Revenue contact them.
Prince targets eBay merchandise
September 27, 2007
The artist currently known again as Prince is suing eBay for allowing the sale of unauthorised merchandise and YouTube for failing to filter out unauthorised film content. The singer has instructed Web Sherriff, a company who specialise in tracking down copyright infringement on the internet, to act on his behalf: the company say that they have already had 300 eBay auctions ended, plus 2000 clips removed from YouTube.
A spokesman for Prince said that “very few artists have ever taken this kind of action over their rights. Yet, Prince has showed time and time again he is ready to challenge the system in new ways to put artists and music first.”
Prince may be the first to take such comprehensive action, but he surely won’t be the last. There are a number of eBay sellers who have built entire businesses on the back of using unauthorised images of celebrities: these sellers need to be aware that they may be the next target.
Time for PayPal to be charitable
September 27, 2007
Google Checkout have eased ahead of PayPal in the race to attract business. They’ve offered to waive all fees for US charities, at least until 31st December 2008.
eBay have always donated fees to charities where products are sold on the site through eBay for Charity. They match the percentage the seller donates by donating the same percentage of fees. For direct charity sellers this is 100% of fees due going to the benefitting charity. PayPal however don’t donate fees, or even waive fees for processing for charities.
Google have suddenly made their service attractive to well over one million US non-profit organisations. It’s yet to be seen if they’ll introduce a similar measure for registered charities in the UK. It’s time for PayPal to play catch up!
Message board CC details “not valid at all”
September 27, 2007
eBay’s official blog, The Chatter, has posted more details on Tuesday’s incident where member details and credit card information were posted on an eBay message board. As we expected, the information is said to have been probably the result of a phishing exercise.
While the issue was very unfortunate, it was clearly falsified to cause public concern. Early on eBay’s teams verified that the credit card “data” did not match anything on file for these members on eBay or PayPal. After more investigation, including phone conversations with many of the members, it appears that these numbers were not valid at all.
Some members did claim on Tuesday that some of the information posted was valid. How valid that claim itself might be is debatable: would someone, seeing their credit card information made public, *really* confirm that it was correct?!
eBay now state that “the credit card ‘data’ did not match anything on file for these members on eBay or PayPal”. So whether that’s the absolute truth or eBay attempting to protect members’ financial information, I guess we’ll never know.
Skype is ten years out of date
September 26, 2007
I’ve been thinking over the instant messaging clients I’ve used in the past, most of which I never even log into these days. There was ICQ, Yahoo! Messenger, MSN Messenger, AIM - I had a log on for them all. Sadly due to lack of interoperability between instant messenger clients I consolidated my use down to just one - Skype.
What prompted me to recall my instant messaging past was the news that firewalls are now able to block Skype traffic and prevent users on corporate networks communicating with the outside world. I didn’t have that problem in the old days - I couldn’t even install the software in the first place. Most of the companies I worked for locked users PCs so that they couldn’t download and install applications (It constantly amazes me that companies don’t do the same today!). The inability to install wasn’t a problem because my then favourite Instant Messaging client, Yahoo! Messenger, had a web browser based version.
You can still log onto a web based version of Yahoo! Messenger today. The great advantage for me was I could chat to my friends with no software to install and at the same time feel slightly smug that I’d outwitted the IT department by using unauthorised software. Everything worked including file transfers to and from friends!
The big question is why have Skype been so slow to introduce a browser based version of their software? Why can’t I go to the Skype website from any PC anywhere in the world and simply log on to the service? Why do I have to download and install software? Yahoo! had a browser based solution some ten years or so ago, downloads are so outdated!
“No, Mr Bond, I expect you to buy”
September 26, 2007
If you’re an evil genius looking for a new hideout, this could be the place for you: the Larsen Air Force Base complex comprises 16 underground buildings, including three missile silos, three 4-story equipment terminal buildings and a 125 foot diameter power dome building. Interested parties will have to stump up $1.5million over the next three years, or there is the possibility of leasing. The 57 acre site was decommissioned in the Sixties and all equipment removed, leaving it ripe for development into a theme park, a residential complex or indeed a base for world domination.
Credit card details posted on eBay message board
September 25, 2007
click pic to embiggen
eBay has been forced to close down one of its community message boards today after what appeared to be sensitive personal information was posted in public. User IDs, email addresses, name and address, Powerseller details and eBay registration dates as well as credit card numbers, expiry dates and CVV security numbers were posted on the US Trust and Safety Board this afternoon. Those who saw the incident report that around twenty pages of details were posted.
At the same time, some members were urging others to take screen shots and contact the media about the breach of security, while others complained that Liveworld, who manage eBay’s community chat boards, were pulling posts for minor infringements of their rules while leaving the personal information up for all to see. Auctionbytes reports that posts were visible for about an hour altogether, before eBay closed the T&S board altogether.
Whether the information is actually genuine is not yet clear: credit card details together with eBay registration information suggest that the source is - or is meant to seem to be - eBay itself. As merchants are not supposed to store CVV numbers, if the data is genuine, it may be the results of a phishing exercise. There is a possible PayPal connection too, as at least some of the message board thread titles are a jumble of letters and numbers that strongly resemble PayPal transaction numbers. Moreover, the posts appear to have been made by someone who had taken over a number of different genuine members’ accounts.
We’re currently seeking clarification on exactly what has gone on, and how serious a breach of eBay’s security this could be. I’ll update this post as we get more information, so do check back later.
Update: The first explanation of events has been and gone, with Xavier on the Australian community boards apparently stating “The site wasn’t actually hacked… it was a server issue where the system displayed the poster’s information rather than the post itself. Being that the credit card information was on a different server, that info came up incorrect.” Given that Xavier’s post itself has now been removed, I think we can take this explanation as incorrect.
Update: We’ve been sent this list of possibly compromised accounts. I have no indication of the source or veracity other than what’s on that page, but it’s probably worth casting an eye over the list for your IDs, and certainly worth notifying your card issuers if you’re there.
Update 19h20: The Chatter has a post about the incident, which suggests that the posts may have been the result of a phishing exercise:
The posts ALSO appeared to contain credit card information — however, these credit cards are not associated with financial information on file for these users at eBay or PayPal. We’re in the process of reaching out by phone to these members to, so that if the information is valid somehow — regardless how this fraudster acquired the information — these members can take the steps they need to take to protect themselves.
This is a pretty speedy response by eBay’s standards, and its good to see them contacting those who may have been affected.
Rewards online with PayPal
September 25, 2007
You can get cash back on purchases paid into your PayPal account, and half the time you don’t even have to use PayPal to pay!
Rewards Online already offer money back on purchases and if you have (or apply for) a PayPal credit card they’ll give you 20% more cashback in the future!
It all sounds ideal, I have a PayPal account, I have a PayPal credit card, so why aren’t I rushing to sign up? Well there’s one simple reason. I’m dead lazy and forgetful, that means I’ll never actually earn any cash back.
The snag is that to qualify for cash back you have to log into the Rewards Online website and from their click through to the online store you want to shop from. I quite honestly will NEVER remember to do that. I might once or twice, but I won’t remember that I can get a discount from B&Q but not from Homebase, or that eBay offer 12p cashback for a purchase but Amazon don’t.
If you’re disciplined enough to check whether any site your purchase from is registered with Rewards Online there’s savings to be made, but don’t forget to log in before you go shopping or there’ll be no rebate! Oh and if you spend more than £10,000 on eBay they won’t give you your 12p rebate either!
Checkpoint firewall blocks Skype
September 25, 2007
Mis-use of the Internet at work is a growing concern for many companies. Not only does it fritter away hours of employee’s time the company is paying for but there’s a justifiable of virus and hacking vulnerabilities being introduced to the network.
Checkpoint, a major firewall and security company, have just raised the bar with the announcement that Checkpoint Firewalls can now block Skype. That’s no free calls, no instant messaging chats and no file transfer through Checkpoint Firewall. One of Skypes main benefits (for users) has always been that it can be installed and used behind a firewall and it just works.
With Checkpoint blocking Skype the free and easy days could be coming to an end. Where one security vendor goes others are sure to follow, but doubtless Skype’s engineers will be busy figuring out new ways for Skype to work inspite of Firewalls trying to block their efforts.
Sky News Technofile features my auction
September 24, 2007
Sky run a feature called Technofile presented by Martin Stanford from Sky news. The latest installment was of great interest because not only did it talk about online selling but I was featured too!
Topics covered included about broadcasting yourself online big brother style, collaboration online, and advertising online, which is where eBay auctions come in. How to get your message across online more effectively? Well the answer is with video and along with vzaar they used one of my auctions as an example.
Technofile finished up with privacy online, if you’re using search engines or using a wireless hotspot you may not be as anonymous as you think you are. It’s like someone looking over your shoulder online, but if someone really is shoulder surfing consider a 3M privacy filter as recommended by Sky News!
RM strikes may spread to management
September 24, 2007
Just when you think it can’t get any worse, a union representing Royal Mail managers has threatened to ballot its members on strike action. Unite, which represents 12,000 managers, says that RM is trying to take pension rights away from its members. Royal Mail has denied any such intentions, though it does intend to close the extremely expensive current scheme, which guarantees members a percentage of their working salary on retirement, to new members. It all sounds like a playground scrap over a misunderstanding to me.
Currently of course, it’s only a threat, but during recent industrial action by the CWU, managers have stepped in to cover for striking staff. If even that option is lost to those of us relying on RM for our own businesses - well, Royal Mail, their workers and their management have probably just lost any last drop of sympathy I had for them.
eBay University hits the headlines
September 23, 2007
Scotland is buzzing today with news of the Scottish eBay University, held yesterday in Glasgow. At the university I was constantly hearing a journalist wanted to interview an attendee, or another journalist wanted to speak to an eBay employee! Fred and Poppy from eBay’s PR company, Shine Communications, were running around the entire day fielding calls and arranging interviews.
The Scottish sellers were keen to make the most from the day whether it be from learning about how to use eBay tools, selling tips, or just getting that one question answered that would make trading on ebay a little easier. The exhibition hall offered everything from auction management tools (ChannelAdvisor), to video (vzaar), shipping solutions (Just Applications and PostalSupplies), accounting solutions (Sage) and of course eBay themselves with Monisha (eBay community manager).
Afterwards there was time for a couple of drinks in the bar before I had to run for a taxi to the airport for the plane home. I left a group of attendees still discussing the day and how they were going to put their newly acquired knowledge to work in their businesses.
If you haven’t attended eBay University yet the final 2007 event will be on the 10th November in Manchester. Sue and I will both be attending to make sure you come and say hello!
Crazy for YOU
September 23, 2007
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eBay continue with their “real eBayers” advertising theme in today’s Mail on Sunday YOU magazine.
This time they’re featuring a buyer, but sadly they’ve been unable to find one who’s bought from the site recently. 2005sbb doesn’t appear to have bought anything since December last year, though she still manages to sing the praises of a chair and a nest of tables she drove all the way from London to Wales (twice) to collect. Good news for anyone thinking of following her example: there are more than 300,000 furniture items listed within 50 miles of London, so you should be able to find something to suit a little closer to home.
I’m slightly concerned by our buyer’s habit of dropping in for tea with people she’s bought off previously too: still, coming from someone who thinks people on the Tube talk to each other, maybe that’s par for the course. You don’t have to be crazy to shop here, but it probably helps. 
Non-UK eBay listings to show GBP prices
September 21, 2007
eBay UK’s Announcement Board has an innocuous-looking post this morning saying that
From now on, the prices of overseas items on eBay.co.uk will be shown in pounds sterling, but in italics. We hope that this will make it easier for buyers to compare the prices of overseas and UK items, while still making clear which are which.
I can’t help feeling very uneasy about this change.
Translating non-UK listings into Pounds assumes that all sellers will be using the same exchange rate that eBay do. This is not the case: many sellers adopt an exchange rate that’s more favourable to them to offset the cross-border fees which PayPal impose. On higher value items, this could lead to some nasty surprises when buyers receive invoices for a lot more than they’re expecting.
Previously, items listed on other eBay sites but showing on eBay UK have shown prices in the original currency in the search results; the item page has shown both the original price, and an approximation in GBP. If buyers want to compare the prices of UK items and overseas items, the information is there for them (if they are incapable of remembering a simple currency conversion like “$2 = £1″).
Currently, buyers have to choose to search worldwide: the default is to search on items listed on eBay UK, which will all be in Pounds. So at the moment, this is a change that’s going to affect very few buyers on very few search results. Why bother?
What this change will do is to disguise when items have been “imported” to the UK site from other eBay sites. If, for example, eBay were to choose to make all .com listings show by default on .co.uk, it would be a lot more difficult for buyers to tell those listings from the UK ones. I have no evidence that eBay are intending to do this, except that they’ve done it before.
Update: eBay have now put out a new version of this announcement. It seems that original prices will still show on the View Item page: presumably therefore the translated prices will only show on search result pages. This only strengthens my belief that this is to advantage .com sellers whose items show on .co.uk.
eBay To Go released for eBay.co.uk
September 21, 2007
eBay have at last released a version of the eBay To go widget for the UK. eBay To Go enables you to showcase your favourite auctions, seller, shop or search on your blog or social networking site.
For those following Formula 1, Mclaren have just been fined £49.2m and stripped of their Formula One constructors’ points. I thought I’d showcase some F1 Mclaren memorabilia to attract some bids for them, as they probably need a few quid!
Sadly as with the US version it still isn’t affiliate capable, if eBay really want users to drive traffic to the site they need to recognise it’s worth paying for. Having said that it’s still a great tool to enable users to easily share products their interested in on practically any website they choose. If you put eBay To Go on your website add a comment below so that we can have a look!
RM strike dates announced
September 20, 2007
The postal workers’ union have announced what is effectively a five-day strike in their ongoing dispute with Royal Mail. Billed as “two 48 hour strikes”, workers will walk out on Friday 5th and Saturday 6th October, and again on Monday 8th and Tuesday 9th. Obviously one Sunday will not be enough time to recover from the first stoppage, however much overtime greedy union bosses negotiate for their members. CWU deputy general secretary Dave Ward called the strike “a proportionate response to an employer that is completely out of control.”
In a statement, Royal Mail said “The union’s unrealistic and unreasonable demands show how the CWU leadership has again failed to understand that no change is not an option and that talking shops will not secure the future of the Royal Mail.” Royal Mail also offer some advice for businesses affected by the strike.
I can only hope that workers see how wrong their union is on this issue. Perhaps the prospect of the loss of nearly a week’s pay will bring them to their senses in a way that the previous strikes, designed to minimise the impact on workers while maximising disruption, did not.
Facebook app for sale on eBay
September 20, 2007
It’s a whole new world out there for Facebook developers. According to GigaOM, in an eBay first, a Facebook Application is up for sale on the site.
This opens up a realm of possibilities - instead of writing applications for their own use developers can write applications to sell. Who would buy a Facebook application? Well in this particular case it’s a review application for music, films and books - it has the obvious tie in to Amazon’s affiliate scheme so potentially it could generate a nice revenue stream if enough users sign up.
There’s always a risk you’ll never recoup your initial outlay if you bid on a Facebook application, but equally it could be the biggest money spinner ever. Only time will tell, you could never make a penny out of it, or equally you could be laughing all the way to the bank with the developer wishing they’d never sold their killer app!
Don’t buy and sell on eBay at work
September 19, 2007
Three Welsh council workers have just lost their jobs for shopping on eBay during work time. In the last eighteen months two have resigned and one has been dismissed with two further employees under investigation.
All five employees came from Neath Port Talbot Council, the council have a policy of allowing employees to use the internet in their own time but not during working hours. Whilst the council have software in place to “prevent access to inappropriate websites” it doesn’t block access to eBay.
I’m in two minds here, on the one hand I used to advise on security policy and it should be written into employee contracts exactly what is and what isn’t allowed. The other side of the coin is of course it’s easy to block access to non-work websites, in fact it’s possible to block them at certain times of the day so that at lunch time or after five thirty they can be accessed but not during core working hours.
In this case I’d say the council is as much to blame as the employees, it’s all too tempting to take a quick look to see if your bid is still winning but it’s easy for the council to block preventing the problem occuring.
If you check eBay on your employers time on your employers computer using your employers internet access check your contract, if you’re caught it could cost you your job!
Half.com sign for sale on eBay
September 19, 2007
It was the year 2000 and eBay owned half.com came up with a novel way to capture the worlds press. They paid $100,000 and donated computers for the school in the Oregon town of Halfway in return for them changing their name to Half.com. The first dot com city in the world was born.
News coverage was everything expected, NBC news broadcast live from Half.com on 19th January 2000 and Half.com capture media attention around the world. It wasn’t until June 2000 that eBay finalised a deal to bring Half.com (the website not the town) into the eBay group of companies.
The Half.com name was only supposed to remain for a year, but the signs stayed for a lot longer until the dot com era was well established. One sign remains in the town museum but the other is now up for sale with a starting price of 99 cents. Of course there could be no other place to sell the sign than on the owner of Half.com - eBay!
NHS records “sold on eBay”
September 19, 2007
A computer hard disk sold on eBay was found to contain confidential medical records, despite supposedly having been wiped. The information was discovered as part of a research project sponsored by BT, which buys up hundreds of second hand hard drives from various sources, and passes them to a team at the University of Glamorgan, who try to retrieve the data on them. The project is designed to highlight the problem of insecure data falling into the wrong hands. Government rules say that hard drives should be overwritten at least three times to prevent data falling into the wrong hands.
The Dudley Group of Hospitals NHS Trust contract the disposal of their old IT equipment to Siemens Medical Solutions, who in turn subcontract to Computer Disposals. But the Trust says that there is no record of this machine going through Siemens’ systems, and that they are trying to trace the route that the hard drive took after leaving them: theft is one possibility they are looking into.
As well as medical records relating to cancer patients, the hard drive also contained financial information, company records, North Sea drilling information from a Texan oil company, and paedophile material which has been handed to police.
Recent Comments
- Whirly: #3 you don’t deserve one after having a 1p listing festival you jammy blighter.
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If anyone has one and wants to spend it with me... - northumbrian: the only fault with that bling thing is if anything it makes the item look to good
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- Trish Connolly: I need to dissagree with part of your statement. You say, “I’ve met many buyers who are more...
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