Feedback changes coming soon
by Sue Bailey
We know that eBay in the UK, US and Germany will be announcing changes in fees next week, but it seems changes to feedback are also coming. Richard Ambrose, eBay UK’s head of trust and safety, just posted this cryptic comment on the Q&A forum:
I’m hoping that one of the eventual outcomes of them might even be an end to feedback threads.
Coupled with the cancellation of Community Court, the “feedback jury” to which members could appeal to have unfair negatives removed, this seems to open up a number of possibilities for feedback:
- Blind feedback: Both parties have a limited time in which to leave feedback. Neither party’s shows until both have left it, but if you wait too long, you lose the right to leave anything. Brian Burke said at eBay Live last summer that this was something that was being considered.
- Automatic positives for buyers on payment: eBay surveyed members about this last year. I suspect it would be linked to PayPal payments, so would they lose their auto-pozzie if they then did a chargeback? Who knows. I think sellers would hate this one possibly even more than blind feedback, but I doubt that “sellers will complain” would put eBay off!
- Abolishing buyer feedback: I’ve seen a fair amount of speculation that eBay will move to an Amazon-style system where feedback is only for sellers. I don’t think this will happen in practice - buyers *like* feedback - but in theory, it’s already here. Buyers’ feedback rarely matters: the only time I ever look at my buyers’ is if they haven’t paid, I just don’t have time or opportunity to vet everyone who BINs a bead or three from me. Sellers’ feedback, as we all know, is being made to matter more and more.
As if this weren’t enough, there are hints that a new feedback system for PayPal might be coming. Scot Wingo links to an interview with Meg and JD, in which Meg says:
We wonder if there is a way to embed reputation into Paypal. Is there a way to travel across the Web with your Paypal wallet and some other aspect of reputation?
UK PayPal wannabee payment service Nochex already has a feedback system, used by almost none of my buyers: what do other Nochex users find? I must admit though, I find the idea of a “reputation system” on PayPal intriguing: something more extensive than the current ‘how many transactions have you done’ numbers could be useful for small merchants trying to build a reputation online.
No doubt we’ll see. Next week and the coming months should be very interesting times indeed.
Comments
30 Responses to “Feedback changes coming soon”
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I imagine we’ll all get really excited/worked up/annoyed/elated (delete as appropriate) about any changes to feedback, but 2 months later we will hardly be able to remember what the fuss was about. Ebay is dynamic, thats one of the reasons that we are all able to make s a successful living from it. If it was static, it would be dead by now and we may all be in hideous office job’s working for “the Man”
, so we have all got to get used to changes that ebay make and embrace them, they WILL keep coming after all.
Jade, that’s so true. One of the more amusing things about last year’s eBay Live was that they had *just* introduced the DSRs onto .com. All the American sellers were going crazy about them… and all the UK sellers were going “honestly, give it a couple of months and everyone will have average scores, and none of you will care”
the only problem is if the feedback changes are extremely weighted in the buyers favour fraud etc could become a real issue and sellers could get really ripped off
JR - it depends on the market you are selling to , but for the majority of sellers, nothing that might change in any respect to feedback will affect their sales one teeny weeny jot.
I don’t think feedback ever put anyone off a fraudulent plan: if people are going to commit fraud, they’ll do it. And keep opening new IDs so that feedback never affects them.
All ebay transactions need 2 parties, a buyer and a seller. For one to be able to leave feedback and the other not is not really on.
As Sue said, Amazon feeback system is only for buyers, however there is a facillity to leave a comment, although after whatever comments (be them true or untrue) are left what the seller has to say is academic as he who shouts first has the audience attention.
I think they may remove the comments part of feedback and just leave the DSR stars to tell the story.
Those of use who have always left fb first selling won’t be affected negatively by anything they do. If competitors who do the feedback hostage thing are affected and end up with a more realistic rating it will likely be good for the present fb first sellers. Lets hope they really fix fb to allow buyer to leave what they really want to without retaliation
Firstly why would a seller leave feedback straight away just because the buyer has paid quickly? In my sales field on ebay this is only the beginning of the transaction as i have to do a LOT of customer service and customer support.
Anyway isnt it about time ebay sorted the feedback situation with non paying bidders? Why should they be entitled to leave feedback? Sellers shouldnt be afraid to leave feedback for NPB afraid that they will get negatives in return. I would dearly love to neg every single customer that doesnt pay up as its so frusrating paying sometimes £13 to list an item. At the minute 20% of my customers are NPB.
We can hope but i doubt we will see changes as revolutionary as that.
There was talk at last years conference of sellers leaving feedback for a transaction first before a buyer leaves feedback
More or less like the blind feedback mentioned above.
“Firstly why would a seller leave feedback straight away” Why wouldn’t a seller leave feedback straight away? Surely a buyer paying is a sign of good faith that they’re trusting you to deliver what they paid for, and feedback from the seller could be seen as a sign of good faith that you think the buyer is trustworthy too?
I know there are arguements for and against whether the buyer or seller should leave feedback first, but from personal experience leaving feedback first has only bitten me a couple of times out of thousands of transactions. Why punish thousands of great buyers by withholding feedback for the sake of a couple of exceptions?
Sue puts this point so much more elegantly than I do
here we go
crying out loud what is it with buyers and feedback,
they pay for an item they receive the item,
then they become obsessed with feedback
buyers can say as they wish about the transaction with impunity regardless
a negative feedback affects only their ego not their livelyhood
ANY SELLER WHO LEAVES FEEDBACK FIRST IS A BUSINESS AMATUER
and suffering delusion
Well I have always left feedback first.
It has never hurt me, in fact it is yet another positive factor in my reputation.
and I know Chris and I are neither amateurs nor delusionary….
It’s down to each seller to decide their own business model and work their daily practices to suit. One skin doesn’t fit everyone.
exactly
“It’s down to each seller to decide their own business model and work their daily practices to suit. One skin doesn’t fit everyone.”
So why the sanctimonious witch hunt to those of us that choose to leave feedback after the transaction is concluded not when it has just begun!
I recently received a neagative for non delivery!
the buyer had moved home and provided their old address
so the item is now stolen or lost,
they paid but did they deserve a Positive, or more to the point did I deserve the negative
“So why the sanctimonious witch hunt”
where?? did I miss something??
I’ve always left feedback as soon as an item is paid for and not had any major problems so far. But I will say that at least 25% of feedback received does not relate to my performance as a seller but to other things like the speed of delivery and in many cases the buyer’s personal music taste - eg “I love this band” or even a negative when they brought a CD and didn’t like the songs!
I’m all for a system similar to Amazon where sellers are rated by what they sell, but can see it causing problems when sellers begin selling and does take away a huge part of the ebay community feeling that exists and makes ebay unique.
Going back to Patty’s points about feedback and NPBs:
You do know that NPBs who don’t respond to the unpaid item dispute have their comments “descored”? i.e. the comment stands but it doesn’t have the green/grey/red blob beside it, and doesn’t affect the sellers fb score.
I think this is as far as eBay really can go with this. There are legitimate reasons why a buyer might refuse to pay: for example, if the seller changes terms or P&P after the purchase. Many sellers file UIDs against buyers who file PP chargebacks for non-receipt. Those buyers *should* be able to leave appropriate feedback.
I hesitate to say this in public, but if your NPB rate is 20%, you really need to worry about more than just feedback. What on earth is causing so many buyers not to pay you?
It just occurs to me: Richard can’t possibly mean “the end of threads about feedback”. He couldn’t think that that would ever happen. I suspect he means “the end of threads about who should leave feedback first”.
My money FWIW is on blind feedback.
Wonder if they’ll bring in feedback retirement at the same time? Bill Cobb has talked about this on eBay Radio as a real (near future) possibilty.
It’ll get rid of those old negs, and for many sellers will restore their 100% record.
Of course at the same time it’ll destroy the 100% record for other sellers…. if you’ve got say 2500 feedback with a single neg in the last month and gain 500 feedbacks a year currently you’re on 100%. If they retire feedback that’s a year old you’ll be down to 99.8% for the whole of the next year!
Shocking thought for some of those that wanted to see their old negs retired…. for others retiring feedback will actually LOWER your feedback score
i think next week will be very interesting. i feel eBay will adopt the style of amazon when it comes to feedback. as a buyer and seller, i have many an opinion on this.
But i personally feel, that if a buyer pays for an item, then in theory thats there side of the transaction completed, so why should they not receive a postive straight away, what else do they need to fulfill!!!!!
Finally, with FB changes on the way, good sellers with prosperous, while not so good sellers will suffer!!!!
Roll on next week so
what is so special about a buyer paying, is it not what they are legally contracted to do, and something they actually need to do,
as a seller I dont think I have done anything out of the ordinary or special ,when I send an item ,its something I am obliged and duty bound to do
To an extent you are right North, but there is always an element of personal choice as to whether the buyer actually DOES buy from you in the first place. In real life, a buyer can walk around, see how you are treating your customers, get a feel of how nicely you keep your shop, and other such impressions that go to make up a decision on whether to buy there or not.
On eBay of course, once price has been decided upon, feedback, and speed of response to questions asked, is about the only way to decide if that seller is someone you would choose to do business with or not.
So I see feedback as an indicator for NEW business, rather than as any reward for FINISHED business.
totally agree feedback is the life blood of any seller
thats why I protect mine in way I can,
that includes holding it hostage, I would even cut its ear off and send it to the buyer for the ransom, if I could
I dont see how leaving feedback on payment builds trust or encourages a buyer to buy,
if they receive feedback on payment they have already decided to buy and to pay, and trust you,
so it is really the seller that is trusting the buyer
“so it is really the seller that is trusting the buyer”… and that’s the whole point
Treat em nice and they come again
yep thats why we are powersellers on multiple accounts and have more feedback than we can shake a stick at
In our eyes, feedback is an indication that the transaction has completed satisfactorily.
So looking at the views above, there are two different positions.
One is that feedback is left because you are happy you have been paid.
The other is that feedback is left because the transaction has concluded fully.
So two mindsets and two opinions about Feedback.
Now the interesting question is how do Ebay view feedback?
Do they take the first view or the second (or possibly another view)?
We will know soon probably
Mark
Time for some adapting soon I suspect.
Hi Mark, it will certainly be interesting to see just what position eBay decide to take.
I do appreciate both points of view, both are perfectly acceptable, and anyway, everyone has their own way of working.
However, I can only speak here based upon our own experience, in that we have so very few problems with our buyers (in single figures over 10s of thousands of sales) that there is very little risk for us, and that from a procedural point of view it is much easier to leave feedback the way that we do.
Horses for courses, isn’t it?
Hey Mark, you’ve just summed up the entire feedback debate in your opening few words “In our eyes……”
That’s the root of every debate that’s ever occured regarding feedback, there are no rules, no guidance, no set ettiquette so everyone has a different unique view and of course everyone else is wrong
“and of course everyone else is wrong”
We will of course all just have to adapt either way to Ebays way
Remembering of course that they are still the best venue for a start up business on the internet. I think that is easy to forget sometimes.
It is going to be interesting days ahead…
Mark